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Thu May 05, 2005 3:52 pm
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Forum H4xor
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: Stan Mikita's Donuts
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I'm normally not the one for ranting (I tend to bore people and lose my train of thought quickly). But an argument (a friendly argument) came up with me and my friends today during lunch.
Now I'm the only one of my little 'posse' who plays TFC. Some others play CounterStrike, but they're not too familiar with any other STEAM games. We all share about the same opinions on gaming except for TFC.
When asked why I play TFC, I respond "Because it is a balanced game, with a high learning curve, balanced gameplay, and fun people." Now today, I was called a scrub and a n00b for claiming 'balance' to be an important factor.
All teams on TFC have the same classes. All classes have their pros and cons, and none of them are too powerful (hold all comments to the end, kthx). Now, in my honest opinion, games like CounterStrike are way too stacked to have any real fun. All you need to do is know which weapons are the stronger ones, save up money for them, and then camp your little ass off and pwn all the n00bs, right?
Now, I'm going to take some remarks made earlier and justify them.
"Why do you need balanced gameplay to have fun?"
Why not? In games like CS, where teams are definitely unbalanced in so many ways, 'skill' can sometimes prove meaningless. In TFC, where everyone is evenly balanced, your rate of success depends on teamwork and something I like to call "skill". These CS players tend to want to find ways around having to develop "skill", by buying uber weapons or camping.
Heaven forbid that "skill" be a factor in how good you do!!!
"In TFC, all you have to do is spam to win."
Correction: In TFC, all you have to do is spam to kill. These CS players are so caught up in looking at their own score, that teamplay is at the bottom of their priorities.
Killing != Winning
Winning is defined as acheiving a predesignated goal set by you or someone else. That goal is to either defend the cap point, cap the flag, etc. NOT to gain 1st place on the server in kills.
Some of the best TFC players have maybe 3 kills for an entire round, with 10 times as many deaths. "What a bunch of n00bs", right? Wrong. They have basically been the frontrunners in winning the round for their team.
Please add your thoughts and comments.
Kthx.
--Howling |
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~*Posting Pro w/ my Posting Bro!!!*~
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Thu May 05, 2005 4:12 pm
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Forum Sniper
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 736
Location: Cardiff, South Wales (UK)
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| The Howling Man wrote: |
| When asked why I play TFC, I respond "Because it is a balanced game, with a high learning curve, balanced gameplay, and fun people." Now today, I was called a scrub and a n00b for claiming 'balance' to be an important factor. |
That is the same reason I play TFC.
In 1999, around January, I played TFC for the first time, any HL game at that (I hadn't even played HL!) at my cousins house, and although I was a complete "noob", I still enjoyed it. I didn't play it again until 2003, when I bought my copy of Half-Life, and striaght away, I wen't to TFC, and developed skills.
I also tried other mods, like CS, but I found myself loosing to people camping, having more powerful weapons, and/or cheating.
I do like Day of Defeat, but the ability to drop a weapon, and pick one up from another dead player of a different class makes the game uneven.
Half-Life Deathmatch and Sven-Coop are my other favourite mods. HLDM is just pure fun, going around blasting each other, the only problem is if your playing on a bad map, finding a weapon before you are killed can be hard.
Sven-Coop is an excellent game, when you have good players, for example, a group of people actually performing in a team to complete a map. Not players who try and do the "fun" part of the map, or take all the weapons and ammo at the spawn, use up all the health and HEV chargers, and/or generally do not act as a team at all.
| The Howling Man wrote: |
| All teams on TFC have the same classes. All classes have their pros and cons, and none of them are too powerful (hold all comments to the end, kthx). Now, in my honest opinion, games like CounterStrike are way too stacked to have any real fun. All you need to do is know which weapons are the stronger ones, save up money for them, and then camp your little ass off and pwn all the n00bs, right? |
Exacly, although the Heavy Weapons Guy is considered the "n00b" class, due to the assault cannon nailing down people (I only find HWguy a "n00b" class on maps like 2fort), but there are ways around them. Sure, they have a phat AC, and 300 armor, but they are slow. That's the weakness, now exploit it and stop whining people.
| The Howling Man wrote: |
| Now, I'm going to take some remarks made earlier and justify them. |
Okay 
| The Howling Man wrote: |
"Why do you need balanced gameplay to have fun?"
Why not? In games like CS, where teams are definitely unbalanced in so many ways, 'skill' can sometimes prove meaningless. In TFC, where everyone is evenly balanced, your rate of success depends on teamwork and something I like to call "skill". These CS players tend to want to find ways around having to develop "skill", by buying uber weapons or camping. |
That is why I attempt not to play Counter-Strike (or CS Sauce), because on public servers, the majority of players are just, assholes. They do exacly what you've said. On more privitized servers, like the CfH one, most of the people playing were CfH members or regular visitors, so we could all act as a team, not camp, and so on. Sure we bought more powerful weapons as we wen't on, feel free to flame me for that, but at least nobody was camping, or cheating.
| The Howling Man wrote: |
Heaven forbid that "skill" be a factor in how good you do!!!
"In TFC, all you have to do is spam to win."
Correction: In TFC, all you have to do is spam to kill. These CS players are so caught up in looking at their own score, that teamplay is at the bottom of their priorities.
Killing != Winning
Winning is defined as acheiving a predesignated goal set by you or someone else. That goal is to either defend the cap point, cap the flag, etc. NOT to gain 1st place on the server in kills.
Some of the best TFC players have maybe 3 kills for an entire round, with 10 times as many deaths. "What a bunch of n00bs", right? Wrong. They have basically been the frontrunners in winning the round for their team. |
You obviously have a strong team quality there, and I really admire you for that. TFC is one of the most teamwork demanding games out there, the team without it, will fall. I love to play as a team with friends, such as you guys at CfH, but I often find myself in a position where everyone only cares about scores, for example, ignoring medic/engineer help calls, that is one of THE rudest things you can do to a team mate.
What I really loved once, was that on 2fort, I got the red flag to the blue base, and got killed, someone took it to the capture point and said "Teamsay: Hey Creamy, would you like your flag back? It's at the blue capture point." I thought, "Wow, what a nice guy!" I was very happy at that point, and simply replied "Thanks for that m8, but you can capture it if you want to  " and we just carried on with the game. We did happen to win that match, by score, yes, but not all by kills.
| The Howling Man wrote: |
Please add your thoughts and comments.
Kthx.
--Howling |
Just finished, what do you think?
Oh, and finally...
...for being such a great team player I wish alot more people like you played TFC. Luckily, this community has quite a few of them.
Heh, are you wondering what I'd do if I got banned from here?  |
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Thu May 05, 2005 4:26 pm
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Forum H4xor
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 2750
Location: Maryland
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| The Howling Man wrote: |
| I was called a scrub and a n00b for claiming 'balance' to be an important factor. |
Anyone who uses Noob in a real convo should be shot.
I agree with most of what u say, I play tfc because its a fun game. If i want to kill lots of stuff ill play DOD or CS or Barbi's Dream Funhouse CD game. |
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Thu May 05, 2005 4:57 pm
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Forum Sniper
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 652
Location: In the rain
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| -SoldierBoy- wrote: |
| I play tfc because its a fun game. If i want to kill lots of stuff ill play DOD or CS or Barbi's Dream Funhouse CD game. |
Whoo, such a classic |
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| -SoldierBoy- wrote: |
| I play tfc because its a fun game. If i want to kill lots of stuff ill play DOD or CS or Barbi's Dream Funhouse CD game. |
-[CfH]-Server Admin |
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| // sometimes it aint fair |
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Thu May 05, 2005 5:35 pm
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Forum Scout
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 70
Location: lol
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| Creamy White Sponge wrote: |
What I really loved once, was that on 2fort, I got the red flag to the blue base, and got killed, someone took it to the capture point and said "Teamsay: Hey Creamy, would you like your flag back? It's at the blue capture point." I thought, "Wow, what a nice guy!" I was very happy at that point, and simply replied "Thanks for that m8, but you can capture it if you want to " and we just carried on with the game. We did happen to win that match, by score, yes, but not all by kills. |
I HATE when people do that, its a TEAM'S cap, not any one players, just do it as fast as possible so the other O players can relay it. ARRGRGGGHH! |
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Thu May 05, 2005 5:40 pm
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Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 6505
Location: New Jersey
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| -SoldierBoy- wrote: |
| I play tfc because its a fun game. If i want to kill lots of stuff ill play DOD or CS or Barbi's Dream Funhouse CD game. |
ROFL..... 
That's gonna become a CfH classic. I have to find a place for that on our web site. Funny, I was just having a private conversation with another player about what makes this game fun for me.
It's the "team" aspect of the game that first attracted me to it. Believe it or not, one of our newest forum members is responsible for driving this home with me. I know I mentioned it in his members thread, but it was KnIvEs who used to bark orders to his teammates over voice comm when I first started playing at Keegs that made this aspect of the game become fun for me.
There is nothing more fun for me than a well balanced, fairly played, organized game. Too bad this doesn't happen too often on a pub. But when it does, it's pure bliss... 
When a player does the majority of the work to get the flag, I see no problem with offering it to him. The fact that most times that player will just say "cap it yourself"...doesn't take that much time and is more than acceptable practice on a pub. |
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The only good game, is a fair game...
Why do we park on driveways and drive on parkways! George Carlin - 1937-2008
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Thu May 05, 2005 5:43 pm
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Forum H4xor
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1573
Location: middle o' no where Nebraska
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wow howling..im touched...that was about the most intellegent thing i have ever heard come out of your mouth for the 5 years we have been friends. lol except for that whole graphing calculator sh!t you did in 8th grade. speaking of which, remember your locker with all the poweraid bottles in it? i bet i can top you with mountain dew bottles.
anywho, so this isn't counted as spam, i'll put my 2 cents in. the first thing that atracted me to this game was the fact that i can take a minigun and mow down everything. i didn't really learn the teamplay proportion until i found my friends playing it. after that, i started playing as a team, i got better, and now, im in a clan. the teamplay is much better then just mowing things down as an HW. |
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Thu May 05, 2005 6:05 pm
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Forum H4xor
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: Stan Mikita's Donuts
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| Chips wrote: |
ROFL..... Laughing
That's gonna become a CfH classic. I have to find a place for that on our web site. |
C'mon... you know you love "Killing != Winning"  |
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~*Posting Pro w/ my Posting Bro!!!*~
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Thu May 05, 2005 8:44 pm
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Forum Trolls
Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 14
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| The Howling Man wrote: |
I'm normally not the one for ranting (I tend to bore people and lose my train of thought quickly). But an argument (a friendly argument) came up with me and my friends today during lunch.
Now I'm the only one of my little 'posse' who plays TFC. Some others play CounterStrike, but they're not too familiar with any other STEAM games. We all share about the same opinions on gaming except for TFC.
When asked why I play TFC, I respond "Because it is a balanced game, with a high learning curve, balanced gameplay, and fun people." Now today, I was called a scrub and a n00b for claiming 'balance' to be an important factor.
All teams on TFC have the same classes. All classes have their pros and cons, and none of them are too powerful (hold all comments to the end, kthx). Now, in my honest opinion, games like CounterStrike are way too stacked to have any real fun. All you need to do is know which weapons are the stronger ones, save up money for them, and then camp your little ass off and pwn all the n00bs, right?
Now, I'm going to take some remarks made earlier and justify them.
"Why do you need balanced gameplay to have fun?"
Why not? In games like CS, where teams are definitely unbalanced in so many ways, 'skill' can sometimes prove meaningless. In TFC, where everyone is evenly balanced, your rate of success depends on teamwork and something I like to call "skill". These CS players tend to want to find ways around having to develop "skill", by buying uber weapons or camping.
Heaven forbid that "skill" be a factor in how good you do!!!
"In TFC, all you have to do is spam to win."
Correction: In TFC, all you have to do is spam to kill. These CS players are so caught up in looking at their own score, that teamplay is at the bottom of their priorities.
Killing != Winning
Winning is defined as acheiving a predesignated goal set by you or someone else. That goal is to either defend the cap point, cap the flag, etc. NOT to gain 1st place on the server in kills.
Some of the best TFC players have maybe 3 kills for an entire round, with 10 times as many deaths. "What a bunch of n00bs", right? Wrong. They have basically been the frontrunners in winning the round for their team.
Please add your thoughts and comments.
Kthx.
--Howling |
First to have teamplay is to have a team that is still alive. Not a team that sux and cant hit the broad side of the empire state building if it was right in front of him.
And last time i checked we didnt win WW2 by not killing anybody.
Killing does = winning..... teamplay = pussies that cant fight for themselves.
People who play balanced games like TFC, cant stand it when they lose by someone who out smarts him and buys a better weapon than he does. Or its the person who just got owned along with 3 other ppl when my 7.92 KAR98k bullet passes through the three of them.
Colin ur not even good enough for halo. |
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Thu May 05, 2005 9:17 pm
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Forum H4xor
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: sacramento ca
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i saw the strangest thing just now... llama lips flapping and words coming out!
CS-> i take great pride in destroying your perfect score w/ dual elites. yes im the one that buys the runt weapons and owns the elitist a-holes who go crying to their forums and admins that "gilliam MUST have cheated because he used such a stupid gun and killed me!"
enjoy your stay at "hotel basement chips funhouse". food will be day-old bread and water, toilet is that brown colored corner. no sleep because of all the great ppl having fun upstairs(remember you are in the basement) in a [mostly]balanced teamplay killing frenzy!
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_________________
Albert Einstein once said “The only reason for time is so that everything doesn’t happen at once.”
-[CfH]-Server Admin
Hanlon's Razor. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. |
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Thu May 05, 2005 9:21 pm
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Forum Medic
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 147
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| Well everyone, let's welcome our first troll. |
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Showtime!
"If a man speaks and no woman is there to hear him, is he still wrong?"
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Thu May 05, 2005 9:23 pm
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Forum Medic
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 147
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| gilliam wrote: |
i saw the strangest thing just now... llama lips flapping and words coming out!
CS-> i take great pride in destroying your perfect score w/ dual elites. yes im the one that buys the runt weapons and owns the elitist a-holes who go crying to their forums and admins that "gilliam MUST have cheated because he used such a stupid gun and killed me!"
enjoy your stay at "hotel basement chips funhouse". food will be day-old bread and water, toilet is that brown colored corner. no sleep because of all the great ppl having fun upstairs(remember you are in the basement) in a [mostly]balanced teamplay killing frenzy!
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LOL go Gill! Now I'm gonna go have some pussy team oriented fun! |
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Showtime!
"If a man speaks and no woman is there to hear him, is he still wrong?"
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| Posted:
Thu May 05, 2005 9:53 pm
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Forum Soldier
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Potatoville
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I don't like CS as much as TFC because in CS there are obvious maps in which either the terrorists or CTs have a definite advantage. I also hate that the different teams get different weapons, like terrorists getting the ownage of dualies and CTs get...what?
Nothing  |
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| Posted:
Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm
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Forum H4xor
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: Stan Mikita's Donuts
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| popojejothe1st wrote: |
| The Howling Man wrote: |
I'm normally not the one for ranting (I tend to bore people and lose my train of thought quickly). But an argument (a friendly argument) came up with me and my friends today during lunch.
Now I'm the only one of my little 'posse' who plays TFC. Some others play CounterStrike, but they're not too familiar with any other STEAM games. We all share about the same opinions on gaming except for TFC.
When asked why I play TFC, I respond "Because it is a balanced game, with a high learning curve, balanced gameplay, and fun people." Now today, I was called a scrub and a n00b for claiming 'balance' to be an important factor.
All teams on TFC have the same classes. All classes have their pros and cons, and none of them are too powerful (hold all comments to the end, kthx). Now, in my honest opinion, games like CounterStrike are way too stacked to have any real fun. All you need to do is know which weapons are the stronger ones, save up money for them, and then camp your little ass off and pwn all the n00bs, right?
Now, I'm going to take some remarks made earlier and justify them.
"Why do you need balanced gameplay to have fun?"
Why not? In games like CS, where teams are definitely unbalanced in so many ways, 'skill' can sometimes prove meaningless. In TFC, where everyone is evenly balanced, your rate of success depends on teamwork and something I like to call "skill". These CS players tend to want to find ways around having to develop "skill", by buying uber weapons or camping.
Heaven forbid that "skill" be a factor in how good you do!!!
"In TFC, all you have to do is spam to win."
Correction: In TFC, all you have to do is spam to kill. These CS players are so caught up in looking at their own score, that teamplay is at the bottom of their priorities.
Killing != Winning
Winning is defined as acheiving a predesignated goal set by you or someone else. That goal is to either defend the cap point, cap the flag, etc. NOT to gain 1st place on the server in kills.
Some of the best TFC players have maybe 3 kills for an entire round, with 10 times as many deaths. "What a bunch of n00bs", right? Wrong. They have basically been the frontrunners in winning the round for their team.
Please add your thoughts and comments.
Kthx.
--Howling |
First to have teamplay is to have a team that is still alive. Not a team that sux and cant hit the broad side of the empire state building if it was right in front of him.
And last time i checked we didnt win WW2 by not killing anybody.
Killing does = winning..... teamplay = pussies that cant fight for themselves.
People who play balanced games like TFC, cant stand it when they lose by someone who out smarts him and buys a better weapon than he does. Or its the person who just got owned along with 3 other ppl when my 7.92 KAR98k bullet passes through the three of them.
Colin ur not even good enough for halo. |
Ahem...
*rolls up sleeves, cracks knuckles*
Time to break things down for you, my friend. Let me take your quotations and prove them all wrong.
| Quote: |
| First to have teamplay is to have a team that is still alive. |
Not neccessarily. Sacrificing lives, time, etc. for the team is showing good teamplay skills. Every few feet the flag moves closer to the command point is important. Let's compare TFC to baseball. When there's a man on third base, and the batter hits it right to the first baseman and gets out, he loses, right? Wrong. He just earned himself an RBI, and a run for his team.
If CS players attempted baseball, they'd all just go by uber Japanese 450 dollar bats and try to pwn the baseball out of the park.
| Quote: |
| Not a team that sux and cant hit the broad side of the empire state building if it was right in front of him. |
I'm sorry, what was that? I think I had something retarded in my ear. Mind saying it again? With like, I dunno, reason? Judgement? Mental conciousness?
| Quote: |
| And last time i checked we didnt win WW2 by not killing anybody. |
We didn't win WWII by having a bunch of freaks running around arguing about whose kill is whose, either. I'm pretty sure it didn't ****ing matter, as long as we won the war. Hence, teamplay.
| Quote: |
| Killing does = winning..... teamplay = pussies that cant fight for themselves. |
Well first off, I already thoroughly explained why Killing != Winning. Teamplay = a group of people at least PRETENDING to be intelligent, if nothing else, to acheive a goal, where one person could not succeed. You can rush and take the whole city in palermo on your own against a team of D? No? Wow, you're a ****ing pussy that can't fight for yourself. I'm loving your logic.
| Quote: |
| People who play balanced games like TFC, cant stand it when they lose by someone who out smarts him and buys a better weapon than he does. |
Once again... you're saying there has to be OTHER circumstances besides player skill or intelligence to win. "OMG I HAVE TO WORK FOR IT WTF". For you, there has to be a way around it. Once again, heaven forbid that SKILL be a factor in how good you are. I mean, that only makes a whole lot of ****ing sense.
| Quote: |
| Or its the person who just got owned along with 3 other ppl when my 7.92 KAR98k bullet passes through the three of them. |
I'll believe it when I say it, punk. You're garbage.
| Quote: |
| Colin ur not even good enough for halo. |
Well, Kenneth, putting aside the fact that Halo has almost NOTHING to do with this s**t (just cuz I'm nice), I could take your sissy ass anyday. Not that you'd care, you'd just find a way around having to 'play' or make some excuse that this game sucks because you say so.
Kthxbye.
--Howling |
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~*Posting Pro w/ my Posting Bro!!!*~
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| Posted:
Thu May 05, 2005 11:53 pm
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Forum H4xor
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 4336
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Quote: |
| Killing != Winning |
So damn true. Granted, it can help you win if you clean out the monkey_l flagroom with 1 MIRV.
| Quote: |
| If CS players attempted baseball, they'd all just go by uber Japanese 450 dollar bats and try to pwn the baseball out of the park. |
Lmao. I want this on a t-shirt or something...
| Quote: |
| You can rush and take the whole city in palermo on your own against a team of D? No? |
.... I can ....
The fact that popo actually renounces using teammates as a resource and seems to think the best way to win is to go it alone shocks the hell out of me. I never play CS, but I can guarantee you any player worth their STEAM_ID would have absolutely no luck succeeding on anything higher than a crappy pub going alone.
ON the subject of flag ownership. I used to be a huge guy wanting credit for getting the flag. Not anymore. If I die half an inch from the cap and the sniper on batts goes and caps it, oh well. My team still scored, and did so faster than if I would have insisted that I get the 10 personal frags. Looking at the stastics based on kill/death ratio on the server, it would seen that the bottom three, (usually Transient, Snickers, and myself) are the worst, least useful players on the server. That is definetly not true for Transient and myself.
Teamplay wins games. PLaying alone, trying so hard to get kills and nothing else gets you screwed over.
On a skill scale of 1-10, a team of 5 6s working together really well WILL beat a team of 5 8s each selfishly playing for their own score.
CS is a team game. Any game with seperate teams is a team game. Anyone who plays without the team aspect in mind is the epitome of a noob. |
Last edited by Audhumla on Fri May 06, 2005 12:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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(dead)-[CfH]-Server Admin but--- because I could not stop for death, He kindly stopped for me
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