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Chips' Fun House Forum Index  ~  Bans, Cheaters & Abuse Reports  ~  A new Ban
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-SoldierBoy-
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:58 pm  Reply with quote
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I've always considered banning, for cheating, to be more of a trail sort of thing. We bring evidence or witnesses to Chips, who makes a decision. I act as Chips' eyes and hears when he isnt around, but I pass any major thing I do by him first.

Then again, thats my own admin style.

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Toughsox
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:59 pm  Reply with quote
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MonsterMan, we have known each other way before Chips even existed, so please heed my words.
I admin here, as I did at Keegs. I also am on the list of Admins for Twisted Network.....something I asked them NOT to do but alas, they did.
I also am a Senior Admin at G4B2S.
Having said all that, I can attest that not everyone thats an Admin is chosen due to their skills in picking up on some of the hacks that are out there. Some are so subtle, they are NEVER picked up on.
Personally, I refuse to even address a hacking accusation on G4B2S, unless its an obvious speedhack.
Some Admins are chosen strictly for their demeanor, their level-headedness, and maturity. Just because there is a hat he is wearing does NOT mean that he knows every trick on the book, every hack, or anything else.
He is simply a person that the server owner choses to represent the server when he is not able to be present.
Using your anology, then just because a cop wears a badge would mean everything he says is to be taken for gospel, and its surely not.
We have ALL been to servers where Admins are jackasses and wouldnt know a hack from a hole in the wall.

Just because FJ was chosen as an Admin doesnt mean that he is always right, just as what Im saying isnt always right.

Has Much been caught hacking, yes. Has he pissed off half the people here, sometimes yes.
Personally, there is 1 person whom I trust has never changed his ways and quite honestly, when that 1 person is here, I simply leave.
Having said all of that, I have been playing here with a lot of regularity lately, and Muchez has been here thru alot of it. And from what Ive seen....and mind you, its not for me to judge, I have seen nothing wrong with his gameplay to suggest he is doing anything wrong.
FJ made a quick judgement call....whether he was wrong or not is immaterial at this point.
The facts are....Chips requires proof before he whips out the ban stick and thus, none was provided.

Lemme add 1 more fact to this whle thing to, if I may. There have been times on occasion where Ive taken time off of CfH and TFC, then come back on with a diff name for shiits & giggles. And trust me.....when I do that, Im there to play and not chit chat......and on more then 1 occasion, after a round or two......one of the regs who went to check on my Steam ID will come back and say, 'Oh Toughie, its YOU"...... as if I was inadvertandly being accused of something like hacking.

:::::and with that, Ant gets off the soapbox::::::::

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Americanboy3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:08 pm  Reply with quote
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I've tried holding back my opinion but alas I speak. I am going to agree with MonsterMan on this one. Fjorn may not have proof, but his word alone should be enough to ban him. Especially since this has come up so many times with Muchez. We know Muchez is skilled, but we also know he's a convicted hacker. I'm going to end with this. How many chances can we give a person in life? I say Muchez has had enough.

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Chips
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:12 pm  Reply with quote
Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler
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Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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Regulating the server as an admin around here typically means dealing with jerks, racists, obscene language, changing maps when necessary...etc. We rarely have to deal with hackers here. Why? Well...we simply don't get that many here. Most of us know each other and our play styles...and there's rarely anything going on of that nature.

I firmly believe most of the admins (myself included) are not "fully" competent enough to make a call based on "playing against" someone. Wall hacking can truly be proved only by reviewing a demo or spectating that player live...not playing against them. Fjorn's comment that his skill level went down when spectating him...proves nothing. He saw nothing at that time. Yes, we've seen some speed hackers over time...something much more obvious that everyone sees...leaving no doubt.

Being a STA admin...I have seen many demos of "accused" cheaters. Many things can be chalked up to good communication (under match conditions), observance of sound etc. No one person makes the call in these circumstances...it's a team effort where the majority rules. There is not always a concensus.

We don't have the proof necessary to back the claim...period. Does history tell us it was likely?...yes. Does his numerous steam ID's lead one to believe that something's up?...yes. Still...if we're gonna deal a death blow to this guy, we should be absolutely certain.

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-SoldierBoy-
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:21 pm  Reply with quote
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Muchez and I played 2 or 3 really good games which Target was specing the entire time.

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kibblesnbits
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:38 am  Reply with quote
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-SoldierBoy- wrote:
Muchez and I played 2 or 3 really good games which Target was specing the entire time.


doesnt matter, he would have to be the most ignorant fool to use his hacks now. its like being accused of murder, saying not guilty, and then going out and kill someone during court.

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-SoldierBoy-
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:43 am  Reply with quote
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That was my point, he was getting some pretty good shots and catching me around corners or cutting me off, all while Target was specing.

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rage
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:53 pm  Reply with quote
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muchez hacked?? i always knew him as the demo jumping god but iono ive never pictured him as a hacker and i would like proof seein as how i have never seen him hack myself

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WTF

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Dark Applepolisher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:20 pm  Reply with quote
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rage wrote:
muchez hacked?? i always knew him as the demo jumping god but iono ive never pictured him as a hacker and i would like proof seein as how i have never seen him hack myself

He's been proven to hack in the past. It's just this time, there wasn't any solid proof. I actually believe Fjorn was right and that Muchez was hacking again, but since there was no proof, Muchez stays (for now Wink .)

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Americanboy3
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:00 pm  Reply with quote
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Rage stop posting if you have no knowledge of the subject.

And I agree with Kibbs again. But how many chances are we going to give this guy?

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kibblesnbits
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:27 pm  Reply with quote
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Americanboy3 wrote:
Rage stop posting if you have no knowledge of the subject.

And I agree with Kibbs again. But how many chances are we going to give this guy?


I believe this is like his 5-6th time

Rage, http://tracker.thecatacombs.net/?steamid=STEAM_0:1:941286&ex_id=1


theres your proof, Logged PP2 TFC multihack.

Anyways that was in the past, He may have quit hacking he may have gotten smarter about it. No one can really make that call. But nevertheless once a hacker you will Always be labeled a hacker. thus my saying once a hacker always a hacker.

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Chips
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:32 pm  Reply with quote
Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler
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Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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I think we're pretty much done here...for now. Neutral

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